Chiang Mai, Thailand is one of my favorite places in the world for it’s great balance between quality of life and low cost of living. (2016 Update – I’ve recently created a comprehensive guide on finding a Chiang Mai apartment. My favourite apartment is only about US$150 per month.) Those factors also make it a popular destination for digital nomads and other long-term travellers. In this interview, Chiang Mai retiree, Godfree Roberts shares his reasons for choosing the city and talks about the business he set up there to help others retire in Thailand.
How long have you been living in Thailand?
Twelve months.
Why did you choose Chiang Mai?
I chose Chiang Mai for four reasons:
1. It’s small. 160,000 people in the 1 square mile old town–the hub of life here. Another 1.5 million in the surrounding area support the amenities of a real city, but are not enough to create the negatives of a big city.
2. It’s better than just laid back. Chiang Mai people put fun first. They like to start work around 10 am, go to bed around midnight, and spend as much time as possible in between hanging out, singing, chatting, and drinking beer.
3. It’s a truly ancient city set in fabulously beautiful countryside. Even within the city limits there’s an almost jungle-like abundance of flowering and fruiting trees and bushes. Many people make extra income by picking the fruit that grows profusely in their back yards and selling it to tourists on folding tables at their front gate!
4. It’s primarily a temple culture: there’s a gorgeous temple on every block and people really use them. If someone is disturbed by a broken heart or a business setback they’ll just show up at the temple unannounced and be given a place to sleep, a robe, and a begging bowl. After a few days or weeks of temple life they’re chilled out and ready for action again, sane and happy. Stray dogs are equally welcome and lovingly protected.
Why Thailand?
I’ve lived all over the world, and I’m here because Thailand has one of the most highly evolved cultures on earth, one which makes every day a delight.
Thai culture expresses, on an everyday basis, compassion, beauty, tolerance, happiness, and a real sense of fun. Foremost among these virtues, of course, is fun. Chiang Maians find an excuse for a major public celebration almost every month (which blocks traffic for hours and sometimes stops it completely for the entire day) and they look forward with special delight to Songkran.
Songkran is a 4-day water fight held just before the summer rains, so the weather is hot and dry. People spend days preparing and days recovering–which requires considerable sitting around, drinking beer, and telling tall stories. Even the (plentiful) local elephants participate: they stand on street corners blasting unsuspecting motorbike riders with trunks full of water, enjoying it as much as the humans. Their aim and timing are much better than the humans with their high-powered water guns.
How does Thailand compare to other inexpensive countries like the Philippines or Indonesia?
Thailand is unique in that it combines increasing prosperity (the economy is growing 7% and everyone is benefiting), absence of beggars, and extremely low costs. For example, a nice Thai meal for two in a garden restaurant, with two bottles of Singha beer, served at your table, costs around $12.
Can you give a quick overview of the best places to live in Thailand?
I give a fuller account of this in my book How to Retire in Thailand and Double Your Income. Thailand is remarkably diverse: mountains with ancient tribes, legendary rivers, forests, and a thousand kilometers of white, sandy beaches. Here are some highlights:
Bangkok (Krung Thep): with a population of 12 million, Bangkok is the largest city and the capital. Cheapest of the “world cities” but at least 15% more expensive than Chiang Mai. More crime, pollution, etc., as you would expect. It’s hotter and more humid than Chiang Mai which has the advantage of being in the highlands. Big, busy, beautiful airport with skytrain connection. Very multicultural. Flooding is an increasing problem. Culturally and historically rich. Both Bangkok and Chiang Mai have excellent medical and dental facilities and cater to medical tourists.
Phuket City, population 80,000, on Phuket Island, a major tourist destination in southern Thailand. Housing ranges from simple to elegant, and cost of living is low. Snorkeling, diving, fishing, and much more. Malls, markets, restaurants, parks and nightlife are all available. More rural and isolated beach settings outside the city on Phuket island.
Pattaya City, 1 million in the entire metropolitan area plus 4 million tourists a year. Pattaya beachfront is a popular dining, nightlife and shopping area. Jomtien Beach is where condominiums, bungalows and hotels predominate. Good rail, bus, and taxi services. In addition to ocean activities, botanical gardens, wildlife reserves, zoos, museums, amusement parks, an aquarium, and a host of other things for visitors and retirees–of which there are many.
Khon Kaen, population 110,000. The educational and financial center of northeastern Thailand. The silk industry is important. There are several universities and more people speak English. Social amenities are adequate for a small-town-international-retirement lifestyle. The local culture is far less commercialized than the tourist cities. Khon Kaen is a highly affordable ‘university town’ for international living.
Thailand is known for its medical tourism. Can you give any examples of your experience with the Thai medical system?
I’ve had four encounters with the Thai medical system.
- After I was assaulted by a crazy farang (foreigner) the police sent me to the University hospital at their expense for a checkup. The staff were utterly charming and made a huge fuss of me. Specialists gave me every kind of test while nurses kept bringing glasses of iced water. I was reluctant to leave. They billed the police department their regular charge for me, which was $23.00.
- The second was with a Thai friend whose little boy had developed some alarming symptoms. I checked them out on the Internet before we went to the public hospital and felt I’d diagnosed the problem so I was curious to see how the pediatrician would perform. She nailed it, offered to keep the boy overnight for observation, and wrote a prescription. Elapsed time was 25 minutes. Cost, including prescription, was $6.80.
- I pinched a nerve in my leg and created a painful condition known as meralgia paresthetica. I self-diagnosed and self-prescribed a bunch of drugs. Prescriptions are not required in Thailand so I was able to treat the entire event–which lasted 6 weeks in bed–for $12.00. Thai pharmacists all speak English and really know their drugs.
- Annual dental checkup and cleaning, plus replacement of a broken ceramic, semi-precious crown. Superb service from a UCLA-trained, English-speaking dentist in a beautifully equipped surgery. Total cost $452.00.
How do you manage your visa there?
I applied for a non-immigrant retirement visa in Australia. It’s available to anyone over 50 with sufficient means/income. I will renew it annually here in Thailand. It allows unlimited exits and re-entries. It’s easy to get and costs about $200/year. Mine is handled by a wonderful British/Thai law partnership, Assist Thai Visa, since Thai regulations seem to change daily and I hate queues.
Have you had any major problems there?
The only problems I’ve had were with foreigners who believe they can behave badly and get away with it here. After being hit by one such thug, the police spent hours with me and subsequently tracked the man down, arrested and fined him, and deported him. Altogether a thorough job.
My other experience with the Thai police was after I lost my wallet, containing all my credit cards and drivers license, plus 35,000 Baht in cash: two months salary for a Thai policeman. The wallet contained no local ID so there was no way for anyone to contact me. But when I went to pick up my dry cleaning the following week–trusting that they would give it to me without the ticket–the dry cleaner told me to go straight to the police station. There an interpreter was waiting on the steps. She gave me a hug (!) and took me to the detective who had found the dry cleaning ticket and alerted the dry cleaner . Everything was intact, and my faith in the (grossly underpaid) Thai police was firmly established.
What are your approximate monthly living expenses?
HERE’S MY MONTHLY BUDGET*
Flat Rental (incl. water & electricity): 3,000 Baht = $100.00
Food (Eat out breakfast, lunch, dinner+ daily iced coffees): 9,000 Bt. = $300.00
Rent new moped: 3,500 Bt = $120.00
Fuel: 1,200 Bt. = $32.00
Internet: 600 Bt = $20.00
Yoga 3x/week: 2,700 Bt = $90.00
TOTAL: 20,000 Bt. = $646.00
*This is my current, bare-bones budget. It’s tolerable because I’ve been working flat out for the past year and using spare cash to fly back to Australia.
Tell us about your new website and business
The website is Thailand Retirement Helpers.com. Previously I was relying solely on referrals and I only launched the website in May. (I’d love it if fellow-jetsetters would critique it and send me their comments. I’m already planning the first revision).
Because I had wasted so much time and money getting settled here, I set up an Australia-based company to help foreigners interested in moving to Thailand. We run a $1500, full-immersion, week-long, residential workshop in Chiang Mai.
Because most people had more questions than I could answer on my website, Thailand Retirement Helpers.com, I wrote an eBook that they can download from Amazon for $9.95: How to Retire in Thailand and Double Your Income.
“Double your income” is the doubling of your buying power when you move here. It’s extremely detailed, and covers everything from Thai culture to sex and marriage to dental care. It also deals with the downside of living in Thailand. I don’t want to “sell” people on Thailand. I want to inform them, then let them make up their own minds.
Then…after people moved here they wanted something to do–preferably something that would make money. So I wrote “Making Money in Thailand: A Retiree’s Handbook“, also $9.95 at Amazon. I rounded up all my friends who had started successful businesses here and they gave me almost 30 ways to make money. Again, it’s very detailed–mostly so I won’t have to answer too many questions later on! We’ve got some great stories (and even business ideas that are going begging).
Do you have any advice for people considering relocating to Thailand?
Come for a visit. Look around. Email me, I’ll introduce you to people like yourself. Everyone here is more than willing to put themselves out for visitors and new arrivals. Read both books. Seriously. They’re deliberately cheap so everyone can afford them. Go through every page of the website. Watch the videos on the website: they’re real people with real experiences and really useful things to tell you.Take the workshop. People say it’s the best money they’ve spent here because they were able to integrate quickly, smoothly and inexpensively into their new lives in Thailand.
thailand is not the only cheap country in southeast asia.
all contries in southeast asia are cheap.
to name a few here: malaysia, cambodia, lao, vietnam, indonesia…
Thanks Rubin,
Yes, you are correct. There are other inexpensive countries in South East, Asia. Chiang Mai is still one of my favourite destinations though.
I live in los Angeles. I just turned 62. I have been to Thailand twice. I went to Bangkok(just to see but I would not want to live there,too big)I went to Patong on both trip’s and loved it. I even hired someone to drive me around the entire island for a day to look to buy a property. I have deceided that it would be better just to rent. I have never been to Chiang Mai. I am seriously considering retiring in Thailand. I will have an income of $35,000 a year. I am just putting this out there. Any help or comment’s would be helpful.
Hi Nigel,
Northern Thailand is a great option. I love Chiang Mai, but Chiang Rai and even smaller villages like Pai could also be a great choice if you want a little quieter life.
On $35,000 per year you could have a great life here. It’s definitely possible to live comfortably on $1,000 per month.
Hey great article, I’m currently living in Chiang Mai as well and love it here.
Just a small typo on your budget, 7,200 baht a month for petrol! I was thinking, what are you driving! But then I realized you must have meant 1,200 baht.
Thanks for finding that typo. It’s corrected now!
I am a 37 year old single w/m looking to settle in a place such as Thailand. I am in the middle of embarking on a second career as an accountant, my first was as a “chef” or over rated cook. I do not have a residual income from the States nor do I have the money to invest in a business otherwise I would open a deli somewhere. Tired of the crime and shady politics involved with living in the States. So my questions are; how does a person as myself get their foot in the door in a quiet, drama free town and live w/o an income from the States. What are the drug laws concerning marijuana? Can I marry there? I love to cook and crunch numbers so I would seek self sufficiency by one of those means. Am I just a dreamer??
Hi Shainan,
The easiest west to work in a foreign country is to teach English. Go to Thailand and take a TEFL course, many jobs are available. You could also do freelancing work online. Accounting sounds like something you could do remotely.
Drugs are available, however the penalties are much more severe. I wouldn’t recommend it.
Yes, you can marry there. You won’t have any trouble finding a bride, however, there it’s also a great opportunity to get cheated. If you do find a good wife, you can life and work in the country freely.
It’s unlikely that you’ll find work as a cook because Thai staff are so much cheaper.
You’re not a dreamer. It’s very inexpensive to live in Thailand. Work hard for 6 months, save as much as you can, then move to SE Asia. There are a lot of opportunities if you work hard.
Thank you John. I have a couple of books started that I plan to epublish, nothing fancy but just another hobby of mine and I will sell cheap just to make sure they sell. I do not want to get cheated nor do I want to create a stir,I’m just a quiet person looking to settle with a like minded lady eventually. So I will follow your advice. I will research visa requirements as well.Thanks again.
you fixed the typo in the fuel section but did not change the total which should be 20,000 baht or 645 USD.
Thanks Gary!
I would like information on attending one of your work shops in Thailand when is the next one
I called Human Resources today (in Australia) and was told I will still recieve my full aged pension if I move to Thailand, because I worked for 49 years paying my hard earned taxes
And I’m not required to return to Australia every 6 months.
That gives me just over AUD$1,600 a month to live on… nice I think.
Hi. I am a nurse in the UK and considering a different sort of lifestyle. Two of my sons live in Australia and on one of my visits I stopped in Bangkok and travelled to Chiang Mai and Hua Hin for a few days. After reading your blog it has really made me think about my options for the future, although change can be quite scary and I would still need to earn money. What Kind of place can you rent in Chiang Mai and how would you go about getting a visa?
Hi,
Chiang Mai is getting to be a fairly modern city. Every type of accommodation is available for every budget. The cheapest I’ve seen starts at about $100 per month. There are also villas with swimming pools and maids. It really depends on what you want.
My wife and I generally rent in the $150 to $250 range but those are short term apartments. You can rent a house at that price outside the city if on one-year leases.
If you’re over 50, you can apply for a retirement visa. They are not that hard to get. Check out your local Thai consulate to find the exact requirements.
Thanks for the reply John I really think I am going to look into this.
Godfrey, Just as Your friiend, you need to sell your books at $19.95 or higher to sell more books. Selling at a lower price does not create more value. People see that it’s cheap and say there must not be value here. I just bought an e book for $37.95. Just test the market. You have a lot of books written. Raise the praises to $19.95 or $24.95 and you will get more Sales.
Glenn
Hi:
I love to visit Chiang Mai for a month before I can make decision about my retirement. How much does it cost for rent a place to stay in Chiang Mai during my visiting there for a month in April this year. What should I do before making a trip? Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
April is typically not a good time to visit because of the burning of the rice crops. However, the Songkran festival is nice to see.
You can rent a place for anywhere from $100 to $1000 depending on what quality you are looking for. I’d recommend booking a guest house first, so you can visit apartments in person.
A very helpful article. There are so many opinions/info etc re retiring to Thailand that it can be confusing.
I’ll be getting your book from Amazon as part of my prep.
Do you have similar info for Pattaya?
cheers
Pete
My husband and I are looking around for a place to retire and we have been told Chiang Mai is one option. However, we don’t know much about this place and is planning a trip there to look around. Is there someone or organization where we can approach to help us.
hi russel,
are you sure you dont have to come back to australia every six months, i am now 65, and have worked in australia since the age of 15, i was told a different story that thailand does not have a commenwealth agrement, under the social services age pension, i am looking to retire in thailand next year, 2015, but i would like to be informed of my recieving the age pension whilst living over there.
cheers morry, perth australia.
Dear sir
I am a malaysian who have just moved to chiang rai. I have some knowledge in baking so I have invested my money in bakery machines, however things are not running smoothly. I am facing problems in marketing as I am all alone in thailand and I have no idea on how to get the bakery business running.. besides production.. I have no problem in production but not getting my products out into the market. I knw it sounds dumb but I really need help and advices.. thank you very very much.
Hv access to super now (at age 57) and modern archetect designed home paid off. Quals: Mental Health Clinician / Masters in Clinical Family Therapist. Partner Jazz Musician / clever clever owner builder / small business owner – domestic concreting / paving. What are the chances of picking up work in our fields if one day we decide to try semi retirement in foreign country. I used to work in diplomatic so get the ex pat thing. It can be a fantastic lifestyle. I do though recall expats start to get a bit whiney re: shortcomings of their adopted countries around year 2.5. Will buy your book and keep in touch. PS: Amazon review mentioned you dont sell the negatives strongly enough. I think comments mentioned Thai using their heart rather than their heads when dealing with legal / administration / important issues. What say you
I lived in Chiangmai for 20 years. I am currently in the USA but plan on returning. I use to take care of my yearly retirement visa myself but find that the Chiangmai Immigration is horribly small and have many people in line. Which legal service do you use and what does it cost for them to renew the visa?
Hi, Pretty happy I stumbled across this site.
I visited Thailand for the first time this year, and prior to that I never considered an early retirement and live abroad. But…I now want to retire early, and I’m seriously considering Thailand as my second home. I’m looking at the retirement visa which for me is 5 years off. I’ve done some numbers, and could afford to finish up today. But I’m going to save some more $$$ first.
I’m interested in the cost of living, the cost of buying real estate et al, really don’t see the value of renting. Not 100% sure where I want to live yet. I think by the coast would be nice, but not near tourist centres like Patong/Phuket. Can you give some advise around coastal areas to live? Also the retirement visa, I’m sure I read the visa needs to be stamped every 3 months, meaning you need to cross the border every 3 months?
Cheers.
Would like some advice please. I have visited Thailand before and two years ago went to Chiang Mai for a visit. I fell in love with the city. I rented a very nice and inexpensive apartment, did all the tourist things, ate well and lived very well on about $800 a month there. I would like to return next year for my retirement. I am 68 years old, an active man who has no major health problems. My income is about $1375 a month and I have no bills but very little in savings, basically I live paycheck to paycheck. In researching the retirement visa, I am told that I must deposit about $25,00 in a Thai account, or have an income of about $2,000 a month. I do not qualify for either of these. I have been told I can’t do mulitple tourist visas and renew them every six months or annually, because the government doesn’t allow it. But have been told many people do it? When I asked the expat clubs there they told me…stay away from Chiang Mai” because if you get sick we expats would have to take care of you or you would die on the street! Discouraging I must say, but still determined to try it if at all possible! Any advice from someone in my position in Chiang Mai, or thinking of going with my same problems? Thanks for any help, information and your reply.
There are many beautiful areas around Thailand and other countries to live. Take a tour around SE Asia and find the place you like best.
For visas, you can get a triple entry visa, which means you can stay 3 times for 60 days. After that you’ll need to leave the country every 30 days.
Yes, you need $25,000 to get a retirement visa. Otherwise you’ll need to leave the country every 30 days.
Health care is inexpensive in Thailand so I don’t think that advice is accurate. If you are worried, make sure you get health insurance in advance.
Hi, My name is Tom and I am 49 and live on Ko Lanta Island in Thailand. My girlfriend’s family has five sea front houses. We rent one for $500 a month.
I only speak english and it is very easy to get by here with english.
We go to eat with our three boys and spend $6 for all five of us to eat.
It is so amazing to live sea front on a quite island with a dozen islands in our view.
The houses come with a mooring for sailboats or other yachts.
The upstairs bedroom is designed like a open tree house. We have almost no mosquitoes year round. Sunrises and moon-rises are so good. We sleep with are children on the balcony at least half the year. Our children and us really enjoy the universe for our bedroom. About a week ago we had a meteor shower. We saw over 235 falling stars.
If you are looking for a quite paradise that is affordable contact us at thaiseason at gmail.com
Hi John
I am just about to turn 60 and was thinking about retiring to Chaing Mai,
I have a small monthly income of £500 but good savings, do you think this
would be enough to live on!
Many thanks
David
I agree! It’s a personal favorite of mine also. It’s also one of the easiest to move to if your 50+ (retirement visa / all you need is 28K in the bank and your good to go for a year, renewable annually).
Yes John, that is correct. I wonder what the average cost of living (per month) would be if you owned your own condo in CM, (given how cheap they are)!
Hi John, recently, the Brisbane Thai visa office shut shop. It was a piece of cake getting a Type O Non Immigrant visa from there. Now have to deal with Canberra or Sydney. They are quite difficult to deal with. I am over 50 and have no issues with passing the income test from my investments. Do you know if the rules have changed? My current visa expires Nov 25. I stay in Chiang Mai. And would like to keep renewing this 12 month, multi entry visa.
Thanks and great website. Enjoy Sonkran!!
Kev
I really liked your webpage on Chaing Mai and am concidering moveing there sometime this year. I have been to Thailand 4 times and stayed in Khon Kean, Bangkok, Pattaya and Ko Samui. I have just recently retired on disability. I would like to get the retirement visa but am unsure about the financial requirements. At the current exchange rate I will get 65,880 baht a month and I know that it only requires 65,000 a month. I do not have anything in saveings at this time but hope to have 5 to 10 thousand before the end of the year. My question is if I did move there and did get the retirement visa if the thai baht to the US doller was to fall below that 65,000 would they revoke my visa? I really love it there in Thailand and I know I could easily live there on my disability. Any advise you could give me would be very helpful. Thank you.
I’m seriously considering moving abroad. I do have a few health issues that I will need access to health professionals on a regular basis. I am looking for a wonderful place to live where I can live comfortably on $2,500 US a month. I have heard of panama, belize, thailand, and several others. I’m not sure how to make a decisuon. Any advice will be appreciated.
Hello,
You should travel to several places first to see what you like most. It’s difficult to commit to living in a country before you have travelled there. Panama, Belize and Thailand are all very different choices.
As far as I know, the visa rules are the same. You should try mailing you application to one of the embassies in Australia. That is what I did after the Calgary consulate closed. I had no problems.
I’m not a visa expert, but once you have your visa, it won’t be revoked unless you do something illegal.
Yes, agree with you, but cheap is not only a factor to choose a place for retirement.
Culture, language, medical facilties, security, government policy, food, weather …
with 35K a year you could be set nicely in Thailand. Chiang Mai is beautiful and I hear a lot of good things if you just want to elax with many available activities, But as 1 person mentioned on another site, it is remote as far as making Visa runs. I Like Nong Khai, It is a simple little city on the Me Kong, and it is a short trip over the friendship bridge to Vienteine in Laos for a Visa run, And many people take advantage of the trip to make purchases that even make Thai prices seem step. Of course you have a similar situation in Jomtein, and Rayong, But add the Beaches, and a bit further from Cambodia, but still pretty close for a Visa Run
Expert, Not experiment, I know auto correct sucks 😀
2500.00 A month can do a lot in Thailand, and if you are smart and careful, you can actually lead a very nice life here
Thanks Kevin, 🙂 I fixed it now.
There are day trips for visa runs, but it is a long haul. Chiang Mai has an international airport though. That is great for travelling around the region.
I’m looking forward to moving to Thailand. I have visited many times and I love it! I’m retired, with a disability. I am curious about bringing my beloved Boxer with me. Any advice on moving with a pet? Looking forward to renting a small house on the outskirts. Will be able to qualify with the financial requirements and have a monthly income. But of course I am concerned about my transition with Daisy. Thanks-Leila
Hi John, Glad I found your site. I am an active 75 y o, live on Queensland Gold Coast and have recently been divorced and she took all the money. This has left me living on the aged pension of AUD$1860 per month. I own my unit worth around $350k and car ($5k) and have $20k in the bank. Being on the pension, I have to be very careful with my monthly budget and through home cooking (no restaurants or bars)I get by. But this constant penny pinching is a bit soul destroying and I have just recently been doing some serious research in relocating to an Asian country for a better quality of life. My cyber research has narrowed things down to Chiang Mai, so I’m planning on visiting there in the coming months after I complete the renovation of my unit. If I like what I see I will assess the best financial arrangements with my assets so that I can still retain the pension. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, Peter.
I am currently retired and will have an income of 3000 dollars US per month and little savings. Is this enough to get a retirement visa?
Hi John if I read it correctly you need $25,000.00 in a Thai bank account for the Type O Non Immigrant Visa, but you can’t open a Thai bank account if you are not a resident! Am I right?
Hi again John is the Type O Non-immigrant visa the right one if I want to live in Thailand 3 months on 3 months off or 6×6?
Regards
Tosh
Hello: I’ve read a lot about the possibility of retirement in different countries around the world. From all my research Chiang Mai Thailand would be my choice. But all I have is Social Security as my ex got the rest. I’m 67 and have no way of saving the amount required to retire there. Is there any alternatives for someone in my situation?Thank you! I’m looking for a place to retire in Thailand. If you could help with information I would be greatfull. Thank you.